Episode 34: Darnita Anderson Hill D.O. Family Medicine Physician

For our fourth Black History Month episode, we had the privilege to speak with Dr. Darnita Anderson Hill, DO. Dr. Anderson Hill is the daughter of Dr. William Anderson, DO, a surgeon and pioneer in the Civil Rights Movement who we interviewed previously this month.

At a young age, Dr. Anderson Hill knew she wanted to pursue a career as a physician. Ultimately, her passion led her to apply to both osteopathic and allopathic institutions. Dr. Anderson Hill quickly discovered that the philosophy and principles of osteopathic medicine truly resonated with her, leading her to attend the Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine. Today, Dr. Anderson Hill is a board-certified family medicine physician who remains deeply connected to osteopathic principles in her practice.

Passionate about both the history of osteopathic medicine and her African American heritage, Dr. Anderson Hill set out on a spiritual journey to learn about the origins of osteopathy, the osteopathic philosophy, and the role that the Black community has played in the founding and progression of medical practice - more specifically, osteopathic medicine in America. Spanning from Kirksville, Missouri, the site of the first osteopathic medical school, to Jonesville, Virginia, the birthplace of Andrew Taylor Still, the founder of osteopathy, her journey ultimately led her to author a book entitled "Blacks in Osteopathic Medicine: An Idea Whose Time Has Come."

This book, which is a must-read for all medical students and physicians alike, aims to clarify not only the history of osteopathic medicine but more importantly highlight the role and contribution of Blacks to modern medicine - specifically, osteopathic medicine in America.

In our interview, Dr. Anderson Hill comments on history, but, more importantly, offers insight into how she feels osteopathic schools might work to better represent minorities, specifically Black students, and further discusses what Black students can do to learn more about the osteopathic profession.

Transcript

My name is Dr. Ian Storch. I'm a board-certified gastroenterologist and osteopathic physician,

and you are listening to DO or DO NOT. If you are interested in joining our team or

have suggestions or comments, please contact us at DoOrDoNotPodcast.com. Share our link

with your friends and like us on Apple Podcasts, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. We hope

you enjoy this episode. For our grand finale episode for 2021 Black

History Month, we are privileged to be able to speak with Dr. Darnida Anderson-Hill. Dr.

Hill is the daughter of Dr. William Anderson, a civil rights leader who we interviewed in

the first episode. Dr. Hill decided she wanted to become a physician at a young age and ultimately

applied to both MD and DO schools. She ultimately found a strong connection with the ideals

of osteopathic medicine and attended the Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine.

Dr. Hill trained in family practice, staying deeply connected with osteopathic medicine

principles and practice. Dr. Hill's connection with both osteopathic

medicine and her African American heritage led her on a spiritual journey spanning from

Kirksville, Missouri to Jonesville, Virginia, the birthplace of Andrew Taylor Steele, the

founder of osteopathy. Dr. Hill has authored a book entitled Black

Syndrome Osteopathic Medicine, an idea whose time has come. In this comprehensive book,

she intertwines the history of osteopathic medicine with the history of African Americans

in medicine. It is truly an amazing book and we believe a must read for all medical students

and physicians, MD and DO alike. In this interview, Dr. Hill comments on history

but also offers insight into how we can better represent minorities, specifically African

Americans, in osteopathic medical schools and what African American students can do

to learn more about our profession. We hope you enjoy this episode.

Hi, Dr. Hill. Thank you so much for joining us on Valentine's Day.

Thank you for the invitation, Ian. I look forward to speaking on your program.

Yeah, we're really excited to have you. As you know, this is our closing Black History

Month episode and we felt that you are absolutely perfect to finish out the month for us.

Thank you. I'm honored to be a part. Dornita, I wanted to start, you know, we

usually start by talking about you and what a normal day looks like for you, but I really

want to start talking about your book, if that's okay.

That's perfectly fine. It's a topic I'm passionate about.

No, it's amazing and I actually just got a copy of the book yesterday from Amazon and

I'm like engrossed, so I think our listeners are going to be very excited to hear about

it. All right, I'm ready to go.

So can you tell us the title of the book and what gave you the inspiration to write the

book? Yes, the title is Blacks in Osteopathic Medicine,

an idea whose time has come. This is a, I call it a research project because

I began to do an independent study on osteopathic medicine.

I would say as I entered into practice in the 1990s, I realized that there were elements

missing in my osteopathic medical education. I grew up in a family that was, they were

highly involved, my parents in particular, in the civil rights movement.

I was taught black history from a young age. It was really my whole experience, even though

I grew up in an ethnically diverse environment. As I merged my osteopathic experience with

my upbringing and those things that happened with my parents, of course, during the civil

rights movement, there were bomb threats against their home.

I remember my mother crying in the hallway when Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated.

So all these things compounded into this one theme on blacks, African Americans in particular,

and osteopathic medicine. That's amazing. I mean, it's just amazing

that you wrote a book specifically addressing, and again, I'm about halfway through. In the

last 24 hours, I can't put it down. It's so interesting that it's osteopathy specifically

and then added to it or layered into it is the black history of medicine and osteopathy.

Yes. Yeah. I have to say, I don't mean to break your flow, I hope, but I was chided

a bit. When I first began writing, I presented it to someone, an older osteopathic physician,

and they said, well, why is this osteopathy? Because I heard you say that, and I do use

the word osteopathy, and sometimes I use osteopathic medicine. I don't know if some of the younger

osteopathic physicians and students, if they are aware that the word osteopathy was used

up until around the mid-1960s. That's another subject matter because some of the osteopathic

professional supporters, they feel that perhaps something was lost or diluted when the profession

began using osteopathic medicine. Yes, the combination of both subject matters are confluent,

and they work to address some of those, I would say, I call them stereotypes and discriminatory

factors that we have dealt with in, of course, racism in America and also osteopathic medicine

as a profession and a science. It has been misunderstood in many ways, but we can go

further into that also. Yeah, Darnita, I think we spoke briefly when we were talking about

doing the interview, and I thought it was so interesting, just your own story. Maybe

we'll start there if that's okay. Yeah, where you went to undergraduate and when you decided

you wanted to go to medical school and how you decided on osteopathic school. I grew

up in an osteopathic family. What does that mean? That means my father, first of all,

who most of you know, and actually you interviewed him, I think, a few episodes ago, Dr. William

G. Anderson. He, of course, an influential person anyway in the entire profession, but

as a family man, as a father, as a friend to many and a physician to many in our community

in Detroit, I honestly, I knew no other modality of care except for osteopathic medicine. I've

been to so many conventions. Also, all of the friends of my father and their wives,

their children, we were all friends. We were close. We were like family. That was my upbringing.

My decision to go into the medical field actually didn't occur probably until high school or

early college years. I knew that I wanted to be a physician, but the osteopathic aspect

of it, that was not firm in my mind until third, fourth year of college because I also

applied to MD schools, but I knew I wanted a different type of healthcare education,

medical training, and believe it or not, I applied to Oral Roberts. I don't know if you

would remember that medical school. I don't even know if it's open, but I always had an

interest in natural therapy, holistic aspects, and Oral Roberts was a very popular minister

back in the 70s and 80s. I'm not sure if the school is still active. Anyway, I've always

inclined toward the more holistic approach. That was part of my desire when my father

said, don't you know that I'm an osteopathic physician? That's what we do. We have another

therapeutic that we use besides, of course, medication and surgery. Anyway, that inclined

me then to go ahead and pursue an osteopathic medical education. I have to say this before

we go on. I should have gone back to the very beginning, but I was born in Albany, Georgia,

and the doctor who assisted my mother in my delivery was the first documented black male

osteopathic physician in the country. His name was Dr. William Reese. He had a place

in his clinic. I was born in his office. At that time, blacks were not allowed to be admitted

into most of the hospitals in the South. This was in the 1960s. That was, again, another

influence into my choosing osteopathic medicine. In fact, it was Dr. Reese who influenced my

father into pursuing osteopathic medical education in the 1950s.

It's amazing. You were literally born to be an osteopath, right?

Absolutely. I didn't have a choice, did I?

You didn't have a choice. Darnita, you mentioned in the foreword of your book, and jumping

ahead a little bit, in the foreword of your book, you mentioned that maybe even osteopathic

students going to school today don't have, and we talked about this a little bit previously,

don't have a good foundation in the history of osteopathy. When did you become so interested

in the history of osteopathy? Can you tell us a little bit about your journey digging

into osteopathy itself for the project of writing the book?

I stumbled across books that were directly pertaining to the life, the history, the philosophy

that was established by Dr. Andrew Taylor Still. Now, most osteopathic medical students,

once they step into the doors of their school, they oftentimes are, at that point, they're

introduced to some of the histories that pertain to Andrew Taylor Still, maybe Kirkfield, Missouri,

that day and time, and they'll see quotes such as, it is the object of the physician

to find health that anyone can find disease. I know that's a popular quote by Dr. A.T.

Still. Well, I actually took it upon myself to go a little bit deeper into the life of

this man, and I think what was so astonishing is that if you really look at what he quoted,

like this is how he spoke most of the time, and I'm going to give you another example.

He says, God is the father of osteopathy, and I'm not ashamed of the child of his mind,

and you have to consider, wow, well, you don't hear most physicians speaking in this manner,

and Dr. A.T. Still, those who have had a chance to read some of the history, we know that

he was a minister, he was a farmer, activist, and more. He had an interesting upbringing.

He was just Andrew Taylor Still at that time. He was born in 1828. He was born to Abraham

Still, who was his father. He was a Methodist minister, a circuit rider, very, very religious,

very strict. His whole family had that type of upbringing. He was made to serve in Indian

territories in missionaries, which at that time was very tenuous. It was dangerous, of

course, because of the racial climate, also for Native Americans, back in the 1700s, 1700s,

as the American lands were being established. Anyway, but the reason I'm giving that history,

and that history was important for me to go back and study as I was getting into really

the mind and heart of who this man, A.T. Still, was. He had so many elements in his own life.

He actually, not only spiritually, but he had actual tragedies by losing five children.

I know he lost three children from his first wife. His first wife, she also perished, and

it was due to just illnesses at that time. Mostly they were infectious. He also lost

two other children from his second wife, and this was his motivation into osteopathy. He

realized that the empirical treatments of his time, which consisted of toxic chemicals

such as mercury and arsenic, and they performed bloodletting, he said that these were, they

did, they caused more harm than good. And also he was a slave abolitionist. His father

was a slave abolitionist also. So all of these elements caused him to adopt a more, almost

a, it was spiritual, but it was eclectic. He was into modalities of care that made people

in that time call him a quack, and they said, oh, you know, they made fun of him. And so

I thought that these things were important because he developed a science that was beneficial,

no matter what people thought about his dress, his lifestyle, some of the terms that he used,

we are not even given, in my opinion, in our osteopathic medical education, we're not given

the opportunity to explore the science, the substance of the science, because sometimes

we are kind of thrown aback by the life that he lived, which at that time was very difficult.

It was very rough. But he, and I can go on and on with this, but he practiced his art

and his science and his healing in a very nondiscriminate way. That also stood out for

me because there are only a few books that give that personal side to Dr. A.T. Still's

life. But what I learned was that he did not make a difference in his patients. He did

not discriminate. He would treat the poor person and he would treat someone who was

Black without concern of their station in life or their race. And these accounts are

frequent and often in books, particularly one is by one of his good friends, Dr. Hildreth,

which you can then, I don't think that book is in print anymore, but you have to find

some of these materials in some of the archived books of certain libraries. But that, did

that answer the question? I feel like I ran out of it.

No, no, that's amazing. And I think, again, for our listeners, and we're going to explore

more into some of the nuances of the book, but I think that's the whole history of osteopathy

that you talk about is part of who we are. And I think it's what makes us special. And

the, and the philosophy that was given to us by A.T. Still. So to get just a little

bit about the journey, you traveled, right? And you had to find these resources to write

the book, right? You went to Kirksville, I read, and a few other places to find this

information, right? It wasn't forthcoming when you wrote it.

No, not at all. You're actually, you're on your own in this journey, especially if you're

like me, I'm just an average family medicine physician. I don't have any special position

in the osteopathic profession. I did serve a little time in academia, but you're not

going to go to your average library and find, you're not going to find really any information

on the history of osteopathic medicine. And of course, at the time that I embarked on

this, we did not have the digital resources at hand. So I traveled to Chicago. That was

a frequent trip because I was allowed to attend that. No, I didn't attend. I would go with

my father to, there's a house of delegates meeting from the osteopathic profession and

that's every summer in Chicago. And also many of the major osteopathic conventions were

held in Chicago also. And because that was the headquarters, you, they would give tours.

You're welcome to go to the AOA, American Osteopathic Association building, which was

downtown Chicago. And in that building, there was a very small library and a kind librarian

named Ida. And so the first time I visited, you can present whatever information you're

looking for, for to her and she would run a thorough check in the library and, and then,

you know, it could take a few days and she would get back with you and hand it to you.

So I asked her specifically about African-American or blacks in the osteopathic profession. And

it's an interesting little library because there are primarily journals. If you medicine,

I mean the profession rather, we don't have a lot of books, which I, I think it could

be a good thing, but it tells me that it's an evolutionary process. It's a science that

has, has a lot, really a lot of growing to do because you don't have the books. We have

books on osteopathic manipulative therapy, but we don't necessarily on osteopathic medicine

or osteopathy as a science and art that can be drawn to the history. So what you'll find

in this particular library are a lot of journals that were written, written back in the 1800s.

There were papers there, some are bound, some are not bound. So I believe that was the difficulty

even in identifying information that may have stated that there were, there was someone

black or someone of a different nationality. And she literally, she only found maybe two

items for me. And now I'm going to mention at this point that one of the items I thought

was really fascinating. There was an osteopathic school that was founded by an African-American

or a black, supposedly an osteopathic physician. And it was called the, the colored school

of osteopathic medicine. And I thought, yeah, that's amazing. But that was in 19, the early

1920s. And someone, another osteopathic physician, I had mentioned it and they said, oh, that

was just a diploma mill. And at that time I didn't even, I'd never heard of a diploma

mill, but I learned that that was a school that started up, that's not necessarily certified.

Nonetheless, I thought that was interesting that, that someone made that attempt. Anyway,

I did mention, I mentioned that in my book. Also, after that time, and Ida, she really, she helped me as much as she could. And she advised me to go to

Kirksville, Missouri, to the A.T. Still University of Health Sciences, as it's called now. And

that was a trip that I planned, I would say approximately six months later. A.T. school,

College of Osteopathic Medicine in Kirksville is, I'm going to tell you, is absolutely amazing.

And I call it the Mecca school. I think every osteopathic student and physician and supporter

needs to travel there to take a look, to tour the campus, to tour the town. Dr. A.T. Still

has statues around the city. There are banners where he is honored throughout this whole area.

And that was great inspiration for me. And that was another place where I found a lot

of information that I also have. And I don't know if Ian wants to ask anything specific,

but that kind of off probably the next 80% of some of the research that I was able to

obtain about blacks in osteopathic medicine.

Donita, I want to, I mean, the whole journey in osteopathy is amazing. I want to take again

a step back and shift gears a little bit. In the book, you know, I think that is so

important for us to take a better look at in 2021 are things about black history in

the United States that make us uncomfortable, right? Because there are so many things that

should make us feel uncomfortable. We obviously don't like to feel uncomfortable, but it's

so important because it's what happened and it's history. So in the book, one of the earlier

chapters you just talk about blacks and the history of medicine and specifically the history

of medicine in America. And you talk about the way blacks were treated as slaves and

medical treatment as slaves and talk a little bit about things like Tuskegee, which is just

horrible and we don't, you know, even reading about it makes me again, just this really

uncomfortable. Can you talk about those things a little bit?

Sure. Yes. And, and you're right, Ian, to thank you for that question and that you have

that's called, that's empathy that you feel that because I was a little discomforted at

times having to review that history, but that's something that we must review. And I want

to cite a incident that when I was growing up, my, this was around the time that the

movie roots with the series roots was a play being played on television. And I remember

that I was in around seventh grade, eighth grade, and things were very tense in the country

because that's weird. That was before internet. So all we had was television. And if there

was a good series on, we would all go home and we'd say, okay, let's get ready to watch.

And that whole series brought to life the, a lot of the impacts of slavery that we have

been taught about in school, but to visualize it and to see it played out in cinema, put

another impact. It gave it another impact. And so I remember going to school and I had

a teacher, he, he was a white male and he told the class that, and I think that was

part of the discussion, this series called roots. And he made the statement that slavery

was, Oh, he said, it was not so bad. You know, the slave was able to, you know, has a place

to sleep and to eat. And I remember, didn't, of course it didn't sit well with me for any

of us on the line who has watched that entire series, but I went home and I told my father

and of course my father, civil rights activists walk with Dr. Martin Luther King and he was

very upset and he immediately scheduled a meeting and he went and he ended up giving

a lecture to the class on black history and the impact of slavery in America and what

it did, the trauma that it left behind for many African-Americans and going to your point

about the medical history, medical experimentation in America that has been inflicted primarily

on black and African-Americans has left an enormous scar and has left a tremendous level

of distrust for the American, the traditional American medical system. And it's interesting

that in the news, I guess everyone has been made aware now of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment,

which I mentioned and most people highlight that particular really an atrocity, not that

it was, I wouldn't say it was the most, if this is, if I can say that, if not the most

harsh experiment, but it was the most bold and overt atrocity in terms of medical experimentation.

And it is really just incredibly sad to think that this went on for 40 years. I just kind

of shake and think how in the world from 1932 to 1972 that this was happening in this town

of Tuskegee, Alabama and someone must have known the public health department, they had

come in initially and had been doing testing on syphilis in the black community in this

area. And I would have to say when we talk about medical experimentation, the one of

the best books is called Medical Apartheid by Harriet Washington. And she has the, this

is the absolutely most comprehensive book that outlines all the, she at least has hundreds

of experiments that have occurred in America. And some of them have also lingered into Central

America and some other third world countries. And I have to say that many poor whites are

included, Hispanic, so it's not limited to African Americans, but the mass majority of

these atrocities in medical science and research have occurred against the African American

blacks. And I'm going to follow that with saying that that is the, that's to the upliftment

of osteopathic medicine. And I think you said it, Ian, it is a special practice of medicine.

It's a special science and that emanates from its founder and the founding of it. So it

does not have a history of this. Now, you know, things always change as we look into

what we call modern medicine and highly advanced and evidence-based and clinical research,

but historically we can be proud as an osteopathic profession and as osteopathic physicians that

that was not a part of our history. So thank you for that question.

No, thank you for the answer. And again, thank you for the, the book is amazing. I mean,

there's so much in the book. I think you did a great job. I have a long queue and obviously

I started the book because I knew I was going to interview you and I was interested, but

after I started it, I've been walking around with the book for the last two days attached

to my head. Just going along with something that you said, and again, kind of veering

off topic just a little bit, you said in the preface to the book, you said, I've always

had a keen perception that I wanted to be a different kind of doctor. I'm just, I'm

just quoting the book. The title of physician or healer should not be claimed by those practitioners

of health whose constraint for time thwarted the thorough exam and proper care of his or

her patients and who prescribed medication as a primary modality of treatment did not

consider the spiritual element pertaining to health displayed an unpleasant or indifferent

bedside manner and place the quest for financial gain ahead of serving others. In my view,

these qualities are the embodiment of selfish gain are, and are antithetical to holistic

care. Health is the right of every individual. I think that myself and the do or do not podcast

group fully echo everything that you said in that passage. And I don't think you could

have said it better. And specifically, we recently appeared on another podcast where

some MDs were answering the question of, can DO do a specialty such as neurosurgery orthopedics?

We could have just answered it with that passage. Yes. And we can do that and more. I'm not,

I'm not sure if the question was, are we qualified to, to engage ourself in some of the more

intricate specialties? Was that the impetus for their question? Or that's again, Darnita,

I think exactly that my answer, which I think you would agree with was, yes, we can do all

those things. But if you're looking at, you know, a Medscape salary list in choosing what

you want to do with your life, you may be choosing the wrong profession.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, our founder, Dr. A.T. Still, that was his motivation. There

are stories and I have these, you know, gets a little bit say, not on the fringe because

sometimes we're scared because we're nervous because people might think, Oh, I don't, I

don't know. You know, now you're going off away from science. But I think the point you

bring up is that how do you separate what's, I would say what's human, what is compassion?

You I don't, you can't, how could you look at anyone's color or station in life and say,

Oh, no, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have them because they are, you don't even make

that up. That doesn't go into the equation. So, you know, just what you're saying. And

I think I see a path that physicians, I just spoke with someone just three days ago and

it was a young man who, and he's a PhD in chemistry and nano polymer technology, very

advanced. And he said, you know, I was thinking about going back to medical school. And he

said that he was talking to some of his MD friends and he was thinking about attending

an osteopathic school. And he said, his friends said, Oh, no, they're not, you know, I don't

think they're as, they're not as qualified. Their training is, in other words, it's substandard.

And while I was disheartened at that, I wasn't really, because I think a lot of us have experienced

that. And what we have to do is learn to defend our, it really defend who we are. And my father

is one who's gave many speeches, but he always spoke of being proud about being an osteopathic

practitioner. And it's the same with whatever your race is, whatever your ethnicity, religion

is that we learn to grow in this and we learn to celebrate our diversity. And I really,

and I'm going to kind of divert a little bit too, because I wanted to thank you and applaud

you, Ian and your team for putting this podcast together because I have been listening. I

have been scrolling through some of the speakers and it is really amazing. It is a book in

and of itself. And I told my husband, I was talking to, I said, you know, some people

either you can write a book or you can be a book. And when I said that, I mean that

putting a platform like this together, it is a book, it's writing volumes for us to

take. These are processes in our thinking where we can evolve, we can grow and we can

take this whole thing to another level.

Darnita, first of all, thank you very much. That is a huge compliment. We appreciate it.

My follow-up question. So again, going back to the book, which I would highly recommend

anyone listening to the podcast to read, because I think it gives you information, again, deeply

about the philosophy of osteopathy. And again, I think that quote just highlights your insight

into what it means to be a physician in general. But when we talk about Black history and Black

history of osteopathy, of course, you talk about probably the most in-depth, definitely

the most in-depth analysis of contributions of African Americans. And we have been super

fortunate to have your dad, you know, William Anderson, who was just a privilege for me

to speak with. And one of the students on the podcast was able to interview Barbara

Ross Lee, who is amazing. My question for you is, what do you think the osteopathic community

should be doing? Or do you think that there's more that they should be doing to bring African

American students into the profession? And on the other side, do you think African American

students should pay more attention to osteopathic medicine? I mean, what are your thoughts on

that?

Yes, excellent question. And to answer your last question first, yes, absolutely, that

our Black students should pay more attention. However, they are not given the opportunity

to explore the osteopathic medical education as distinct from the allopathic medical tract.

That is an issue. I believe that that was a question that was presented years ago to

one of the osteopathic journals. And the question was asked, why aren't more African American

students applying to the osteopathic schools? Well, one of the, there's several issues,

it's multifactorial. However, many of the better students overlook the osteopathic medical

schools. If they're Black and they're at the top of their class, a lot of times they're

able to get scholarships into some of the MD schools, or the cost of going to the MD

schools, I believe it or not, are a lot less than some of the osteopathic colleges of medicine.

That is one of the issues. Another one is that if we don't really diversify, I mean,

like visibly diversify some of the osteopathic colleges of medicine, this does not, they're

not attractive to an African American student. They're probably not attracted to Hispanic

or Asian. That is, that's something that I think any student would consider if they're

matriculating through any type of higher education, even undergraduate in college. Everyone wants

to feel like they have someone who's, that they can relate to, that they can bond with,

study with. And that is something that can be worked upon. Another suggestion that I

make and I know, and I'm, I'm kind of one that likes to go to the other end, to the

other extreme, and I don't think it really is, but I suggested that why not a Black college

of osteopathic medicine? Now, some might think that's really radical, way out, but it's not

really when you consider at one time in history, well, not at one time, over a century, that

the historically Black colleges and universities were being established in America. And the

primary reason was because Blacks were not allowed an education up into the early 1900s.

So we're looking at a span of a little over a hundred years that, that many Black African

Americans were given the opportunity to go to college, let alone to go to a medical school.

And of course, under the Flexner Report, which many of us know of, that it wiped out Black

medical colleges. There used to be 14, believe it or not, but under Flexner, there were seven.

It closed five. And so two were left by the 1930s, 40s, 50s, and then one more was established.

So that's a total of three Black medical schools. And I think there's room to look at a Black

osteopathic college. There was talk of an area, I won't say, because I just heard a

glimmer about it, that there may be, they were trying to establish an osteopathic school,

that it sounds like it might capture some of the underserved, which could include Black,

Hispanic, and others. But I'm not, I can't speak any more on that. But that, that is

another suggestion, Ian. So there's, there are a few things that can be done to address

these disparities that are prevalent amongst African American students.

That's amazing. Again, Darnita, your breadth of knowledge and understanding is just spectacular.

And thank you so much for spending time with us tonight.

No, you're so welcome. And Ian, I have to say, I felt like, I feel like what I did in

writing the book, I was obligated, and you're right, it was part of my destiny. Because

I stand on the backs of a lot of these great ones that include those two you mentioned,

my father, Dr. William G. Anderson, and Dr. Barbara Ross Lee, because she was my mentor

and one of my professors in medical school. So I thank you too. I really do. This has

been wonderful.

Darnita, just one last question, if you don't mind, before we wrap up. If there is a minority

student, an African American student, listening to the podcast that's interested in osteopathic

medicine, can you give them some advice?

Yes, yes, absolutely. I would urge them to first be certain that osteopathic medicine

is something that you want to explore. What I have found that many times I am recommended

to speak with African American students, and to be honest, they want to be physicians and

they're not necessarily looking at the different philosophies and modalities. And that's not

their fault, because for the most part, the MD and DOs, you know, the merger has occurred,

and I think the date was 2020. So we are now looking at a time period where I think it's

important that we have to maintain our distinction as osteopathic physicians. And so that's one

thing that the African American student who is looking at the osteopathic school can do.

And then secondly, of course, is to be firm in your studies in undergraduate, in your

sciences, in your mathematics courses. And of course, because you can't get around that,

even though there's more talk, and I think rightfully so, that what makes a well-rounded

physician? Well, it's not always the top MCAT score and the top science score. So just make

sure you're well-rounded. Make sure you're going to medical school for the right reasons.

And don't give up. Keep pushing ahead. You speak to some osteopathic physicians. There

are enough African American physicians that you can speak to. They can be your mentors.

They're happy. Most are open and looking to mentor some of these young potential osteopathic

medical students.

It's funny, as you were speaking, first of all, the advice is perfect. I don't think

you could have said it any better. But as you were speaking, what came to my mind is

something that William Anderson said, who obviously has influenced you. He said, keep

your eye on the prize and hold on. They're saying the same thing in a different way,

right?

Come on. I love it because do you know what? Do you know that's what he used to tell me

when I grew up? Or growing up. And I was, sometimes I was upset because I was complaining

and I said, oh, this is not going right. And this is too hard. He sat me down. He said,

Deedee, that's what he calls me. He said, you keep your eye on the prize. So thank you

for bringing that up. That's excellent. This has been a tremendous broadcast and I've enjoyed

your questions and I've enjoyed speaking with you.

Darnita, I've enjoyed speaking with you also. And again, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you, Ian.

This concludes our episode of Do or Do Not. Send all inquiries, comments, suggestions,

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have plenty of more interviews lined up and we're excited to share them with you. This

is Tianyu Shea. Thank you guys so much for listening to Do or Do Not.