Episode 51: Melanie Jessen D.O. Family Medicine Residency Director

In this episode of D.O. or Do Not, we interview Dr. Melanie Jessen. Dr. Jessen is the Family Medicine Residency Director at West Suburban Medical Center in Oak Park, Illinois. Dr. Jensen also serves as the second-year Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine course director at the Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine. She graduated from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and subsequently attended the Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine, where she also completed her internship, a neurology residency, and a family medicine residency. Dr. Jessen has served as president of the Illinois Osteopathic Medical Society and was a  delegate for the American Osteopathic Association.

I hope you enjoy her journey starting as a teacher of dance and music and ultimately pivoting direction to attend medical school and become an osteopathic physician.  

Hosted by Tiffany Carlson
Edited by Thomas Jasionwski

Transcript

My name is Dr. Ian Storch. I'm a board-certified gastroenterologist and osteopathic physician,

and you are listening to DO or DO NOT. If you are interested in joining our team or

have suggestions or comments, please contact us at DoOrDoNotPodcast.com. Share our link

with your friends and like us on Apple Podcasts, Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. We hope

you enjoy this episode. Hi, I'm Tiffany Carlson, a second year osteopathic

medical student hailing from the Midwest, and you're listening to DO or DO NOT. On this

edition of DO or DO NOT, we interview Dr. Melanie Jessen. Dr. Jessen is the family practice

residency director at West suburban medical center in Oak Park, Illinois. Dr. Jessen serves

as the second year osteopathic manipulative medicine course director at the Chicago College

of Osteopathic Medicine. She graduated from the University of Illinois at Champaign-Urbana

and subsequently attended the Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine, where she also completed

her internship, a neurology residency and family practice residency. Dr. Jessen has

served as the president of the Illinois Osteopathic Medical Society and was the delegate for the

American Osteopathic Association. I hope you enjoy her journey starting as a teacher of

dance and music and ultimately pivoting direction to attend medical school and become an osteopathic

physician. Thanks for listening. Hi, Dr. Jessen. Hope you're doing well. Thank

you so much for joining us on the DO or DO NOT podcast. Thank you for inviting me. So

we usually like to start with what does your normal day look like if there is such a thing

as a normal day, just so our listeners can kind of understand how you spend your day

as a physician. So just start in the morning when you wake up and then just go through

a typical day or a non-typical day of what your work roles are and responsibilities are

throughout the day. Wow. Okay. Well, each day is different, but

that's what I think makes it interesting. So for example, on a Monday, I divide my time

into seeing patients in the clinic for a half a day. And then my afternoon, what I do is

I precept or I oversee the residents, my residents in clinic. And so that's teaching. So a lot

of my week, I would say is divided into having a half day of seeing patients and then a half

day of teaching. I also teach on Wednesdays over at Midwestern University. I teach osteopathic

manipulation over here. I'm sitting here today. So that's kind of how my week goes.

And so thank you so much for taking the noon hour to speak with us. Can you just share

with our listeners kind of when you became interested in medicine and what made you decide

to become an osteopathic physician? So I came into osteopathic medicine in a very

roundabout way. I was actually a musician before I was a physician. So I majored in

music and minored in dance in college. So I was out doing both of those. And I was teaching,

I got very interested in music therapy and dance therapy. And I was going back to school

actually to study those, which you have to take your basic science classes. So I was

taking my basic science classes. And then I learned about osteopathic medicine. And

I was I was hooked. I was like, yes, this is exactly what I want to do. Because I was

very interested in I was very interested in movement and the muscular skeletal system,

but also just in the social emotional aspects of people. And I really enjoyed working one

on one with people. So I looked into osteopathic medicine and went to school.

And so where did you do your undergraduate education? And then you mentioned that you

were a dancer and a musician. You're actually the second dancer that I've interviewed for

this program. So I find that quite, quite interesting and neat. So where did you go

to undergraduate school? And then I know that you mentioned that you were working as a musician

and then thinking about musical therapy. But were there any experiences during your undergraduate

that kind of had you leaning towards medicine? So I went to University of Illinois in Urbana,

and I majored in music and minored in dance there. So they have wonderful departments

for both of them. At that time, I can honestly say I had no interest in going into medical

school. That was not my life plan at the time. So it really was something that evolved as I was

out after college, I was teaching at a music studio, I was teaching piano. And then I was

also a piano accompanist. So I was a piano accompanist downtown for voice students. And

I was also a piano accompanist for dance classes. I was in a small dance company. And then I also

was working on my master's at Northwestern. And I was dancing in the dance company there.

Wow. So yeah, Chicago is one of those places where everything kind of intercepts. So you

were at Northwestern. How did you hear about osteopathic medicine there and then begin to

apply to osteopathic school? So I was actually at Loyola. So I had finished at Northwestern.

I was out teaching and getting jobs. And I was actually making a living as a musician and a

dancer, which is not easy to do. But yeah, you usually have your hands full with about four

different jobs at the same time. But that's the lifestyle that you have. So I was doing that.

And so I started taking classes for music therapy and dance therapy at Loyola University,

because they have a very good post-bachelor at pre-professional health program. So it's for

anybody who wants to go into a health field that did not have the basic science courses. So you

basically take all your science courses in one year, or you spread them out in two years. And

then you don't have to get another degree. So it was actually my biology teacher there. He

pulled me aside. I think I was in his office asking him questions. And he said, you know,

you're a really good student. Have you ever thought about going to medical school instead of doing

music therapy and dance therapy? He goes, I think you might feel limited doing music therapy and

dance therapy. And I think you should go into medical school. So he was the one who planted

the seed for me. I really wasn't thinking about it. And then they had the person who ran this

pre-professional health program. He also introduced me about osteopathic medicine because he knew what

my interests were. And he knew a lot about it. I think there have been several people from that

program that have applied to osteopathic medical schools because of that man. And I'm sorry,

I can't remember his name. That's okay. So this biology professor kind of sent you on the way or

planted the seed. Did you apply to any other schools besides the Chicago school? I was only

applying to Illinois schools because I wanted to stay in state. So I actually only applied to

Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine. That was the only osteopathic school I applied to.

And then I applied to the University of Illinois and Rush and Loyola. And I got into University

of Illinois and Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine. But I really liked the philosophy

of the osteopathic schools. So that was my number one choice. At the time, my mother was ill,

and I wanted to stay around the area. So yeah, that's usually I hear a lot about

how geography plays a big role in some students' decision making. So can you tell me,

you're you're able to be close with your mom at the time. And then how was your experience

at the Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine? You know, I really loved my experience here. I

think, you know, being a medical school student was such a privilege. And I think my education

was outstanding. They were also very supportive of me. I also liked my interview. I think my

interview here was probably one of the friendliest interview processes I've had. So I felt very

welcomed here. You know, they did, of course, ask the question because this was back in the 1980s.

So people would cock their head at me and go, Well, you're a musician. Why do you want to

become a physician? And they didn't quite understand the connection. So I would always

have to explain myself with that. But actually, if you look at a career wheel, medicine is the

most artistic of the sciences and music is the most scientific of the arts. So they're right next to

each other on a career wheel. I've never heard of a career wheel. Is that kind of like a color wheel?

It's kind of like a color wheel. So when I saw it with my kids when they were going through high

school, when they took their ACTs, and they would ask them like what profession they wanted to go

into, they would, you know, ask them a series of questions, and they would put them on this career

wheel. And it was kind of divided into, you know, people skills, technical skills, and it would put

you and give you ideas of what jobs you may want to go into in your future.

That's kind of cool. I'll have to bring that out when my kids are deciding what they want to do

in the world. So so you're at Midwestern, which I believe it wasn't Midwestern at the time. And

were you did you participate in any extracurricular activities or research?

I did for the summer in between first year and second year. That's the one year that you have

your summer off. I was a neuroanatomy research assistant and was able to do some neuroanatomy

research that summer, which was a great experience. Again, the team was just very,

very friendly. And the work was interesting. It was I had to sacrifice some mice, which I

wasn't my favorite thing to do. But we did that. And then we actually did a surgery on the mice

too. So I got some surgical skills. And then, you know, we didn't get to finish the research

because then the neuroanatomist actually left and went to teach at another school. But it was a good

experience. I enjoyed it. And then I was also a teacher's assistant for anatomy my second year.

How did those two experiences influence you, you know, during your clinical rotations,

and then when you decided what your specialty would be?

I was interested in neurology. So that was one of the reasons why I wanted to do the neurology

research. They have that under my belt. And I still thought I was interested in doing neurology

when I entered my clinical rotations. But then, you know, I think the osteopathic schools really

teach you very holistically and really teach you about the whole person. And so I really then

started to go towards more of a primary care interest because you can take care of the whole

person and not just their nervous system. So I think just the overall teaching philosophy of the

school really geared me towards primary care. So were there any people that you met, instructors,

peers, that while you were a student at Midwestern that you still remember and that have influenced

you? Well, one of them was Ken Nelson. Ken Nelson is just a great guy. He looks like a cowboy,

he wears cowboy boots. But he was just so accessible and somewhat silly sometimes. He taught OMM.

But he was just very accepting, gracious of all the students, and would always encourage you to

do osteopathic medicine. So Ken has recently retired. I've kept in contact with him. He

sponsored me for my fellow because I'm a fellow of the ACOFP. So he was my sponsor.

Okay. Can you tell me about kind of how you become a fellow in your chosen practice?

So yeah, so to become a fellow of the American College of Osteopathic Family Physicians,

there's several things that requirements. One, I think you have to be out in practice,

I think it's six years. You have to be a member of the ACOFP for six years and be going to their

meetings. But then also you have to write a paper. You have to be active in your state or national

society. And you have to look like you are doing something educational, whether you're on a

journal board or whether you're actively teaching. And so those are the requirements, which are

those are actually much more than a lot of other fellow requirements are.

So you mentioned like leadership at a national or local level, can you kind of go into what

what you have done for leadership? And then also, you know, what students can kind of look for and

why it's important to kind of take those active leadership roles?

Yeah, so when I was a resident, there was a physician here, Millicent T. Tamble, she was

OB-GYN and she invited me to become the resident representative of the Illinois Academy of

Medicine Medical Society. And back then, you would go once a month and sit in a big room and

everybody would talk about advocacy and the yearly meetings that they would put up, you know, provide

for the state. And so I did that as a resident and that kind of opened my eyes to working at the

state level. And then when I graduated me and one of my fellow colleagues, Laura Roche, who is now

Dean, can't remember where she's Dean, but she's Dean of one of the medical schools, we had a

Dean of one of the medical schools, we did the board review course for the state. And we did that

for several years, we stopped because I think we both started having more children. So we stopped

for a while. And then I got back into it, Laura had also gotten back into it and invited me to

come back because she was a past president of the Illinois Medical State Society. And so then she

put me into the leadership, you kind of get into this leadership path. So you get a you kind of go

from secretary to treasurer to vice president to president elect to president. And you do that for

one year, every year, while you're also serving on committees. So by the time you become president,

you are ready, you're very ready to be president. So I did that with the Illinois Osteopathic

Medical Society. And I was president, I believe in 2016 17. So I did that. And then I also became

active on the ACOP program committee because I run the conferences for my residency program. So

they sought me out and said, Would you be interested in helping us run president programs

for the national level? And I said, Absolutely. So then in 2017, I think I was co chair in 2018,

I was chair of the ACOP program committee and organize the whole program for the spring meeting.

So you're currently a family practice residency director, but looking back when you were still at

CCLM, and how did you finally decide on your specialty? And then what was your experience

with the process of getting into residency? Well, that was a that was a very different

time getting into residencies. I'll just say that I was originally interested in my top two,

you know, two choices was either to go into neurology. And that's why I did the neurology

research. My other thought was that I wanted to go into physical medicine and rehabilitation,

which again, is a very popular residency program for DOs to go into a matter of fact, last I heard

about, you know, we represent eight, eight, nine percent, maybe 10% now of the United States

physicians, and about 50% of PM and our doctors are DOs. So it's a very popular DO specialty.

So those were my two and I did rotations in both. And then I had just a wonderful rotation at CCLM

with a family physician, who pretty much let me do just about everything. She let me really run the

the patient care and management. And after that, I was hooked. And I thought, you know, I really

want to go into family medicine. At the time, what you did was you just kind of I walked into

the family medicine program director's office and said, I would like to go into family medicine.

And he's like, Sure, we'll sign you up. There was no match. And so I was it was between that

and it was between neurology. So I actually applied to both. I got the neurology position,

which they only accepted one. So I started out with neurology. I was really, you know, I was really

torn. There was a lot of pressure to specialize back then. So I did neurology for one year. And

after a half a year, I went up to my program director and I said, This is not for me. I mean,

it's very interesting, but I really, really want to do family medicine. And so I went back to the

program director kind of with my tail between my legs and said, You know, I think I, you know, I

you know, I want to do family medicine. And he said to me, you know, didn't I tell you so,

because when I when I told him I was going to go into neurology, he said, I'll see you in six

months. He goes, You're a family doctor. And I know you are. And you'll you'll be back. He goes,

so I'm going to keep this position open for you. And he did. And he was right.

We've spoken to many physicians on their journey in osteopathic medicine. And I hear over and over

again, how much, you know, mentors are important and kind of making making or breaking a decision

in what specialty you go into? Is there how does how does a student go out seeking mentorship?

Yeah, that's a good question. mentorship, I think is, it's difficult to find a good mentor. Sometimes

your mentor is one person, sometimes your mentor is, is several people that have given you advice,

just in certain areas. And so when I think back to when I went into family medicine,

I don't think there was one single mentor that I had, there was probably a handful,

and they were men, they were women. But there wasn't a single one. There was also less women

in medicine. At that time, there wasn't as many mentors for me to seek out.

Hmm. So you're in your residency, you've already transitioned from your neurology residency,

can you share some of your experiences during residency?

Oh, with patient care, or just for getting through residency? I well, I think one of the things is,

you have to the program director we had at that time was Dr. John Karat. And he was an angel in

disguise. So I would highly recommend for students to find a residency program where the residency

director is supportive and believes in you because that was just really important at the time for me

is they have somebody who believed in me and thought that I was competent in what I was doing.

So he was great. You want to learn as much as you can in residency programs. And our residency

program was in Hyde Park, that we had a high volume. And just to think about the volume of patient

care, we saw that we would see up to 50 patients a day in the clinic. So 25 per half day. And there's

no way anybody can do that now. But that's what we did. So with residency, I think the important

part for family medicine was to see and experience as much as possible because it's such a such a broad

field. Yes, from you know, the womb till the outer edges. So what do you think was your proudest

moment during your education as a Dio? graduating? That's a good question. I think it was probably

just trying to find a balance and trying to to find meeting in what I was doing, which I did,

I found a lot of meaning in what I was doing, and really felt that every day I was coming

to work and making a difference in people's lives and taking care of people. And again,

this was in Hyde Park, where the patient population there was great, they were very appreciative

of your care, but they were a very complex, socially underserved area. But I found it really

rewarding to take care of those. So I would say that was the highlight. So you mentioned, I guess,

kind of a tenant of osteopathic medicine, like finding balance, balance and ease. Have you found

it yet? Or are you still trying to get there as well? You know, I'm a very selfish person.

So I do find my balance because I think I demanded upon myself to find balance. I've always really

enjoyed hobbies. I really enjoy sleep. I think it's fantastic. And it's underrated. But you know,

I, you learn how to say no, and you learn how to kind of carve out your career. You can't really

do it as much as a student or a resident. But definitely, when you get out, you can carve your

career the way you want it, you know, and it's okay to say no, or it's okay to say, Hey, I really

have an interest in a drive for this, I want to do more of this. So yeah, you have to you have to

have your own voice and you'll have other people recommend other things to you, or you'll see what

other people are doing. But you really have to carve it out for yourself and be brave to do that.

Well, thank you for saying yes, yes to our podcast. So you so you survived maybe thrived

your residency? How was it looking for your first job? Oh, well, this is this was my situation,

my scenario when I was finishing up residency, I had three small children, I had two children

during medical school, and I had one child during residency. So my goal was to find some place close

to home, because I wanted to be where if I needed to run home, I could. So I just looked around at

all the hospitals that were within a 10 mile radius of me. And I interviewed, and two of them

had residency programs, I was very interested in teaching I had taught my last year of residency,

I had taught OMM and introduction to clinical medicine. And I wanted to continue teaching and

I had taught piano before. So I really enjoyed teaching. So the main two programs I looked at

were teaching programs, and they both offered me positions within 48 hours. So one of the perks of

going into family medicine is you can find a job probably within an hour radius of your home easily.

So would you if you had, you know, if you didn't have like, I wouldn't say, you know, family life

is a constraint, but would you have chosen maybe a different specialty? Or do you think, you know,

family medicine was it it shows you you're done? Or do you think you, you know, if you could do

it all over again, maybe you choose something else? No, I think I think family medicine was

definitely that is that is me. That is what I was destined here to do. I'm glad though, that I tried

my one year of neurology residency, because again, at the time, there was a lot of pressure to

specialize. So I tried it. And then I so I had that opportunity to try it. And then it, I didn't like

it. I mean, I liked it. But it wasn't really for me, I caught myself going to see patients after I

had done my console just to see how they were doing. I was I remember I was criticized by my

residency program director. He said, you're doing too much. You don't need to do all of that. You're

a neurology resident. So so yeah, so I really thought, you know, I'd rather see the whole person.

And I miss that. So this was absolutely the best choice for me. And I wouldn't go back on it in a

second. So you're a fellow in family medicine, as well as osteopathic practice. Can you just tell

you know, some of the students is there, you know, either thinking of osteopathic school or are

already you know, in their OMM lab, their osteopathic manipulative medicine lab, can you just

share with how you add on t to your family practice? Yeah, sure. I think of it all the time.

There's so many muscular skeletal issues out there that people are dealing with that I just I think

the main thing to tell students is that you just got to, again, plant a seed and think about it

all the time. And you don't have to do a lot of OMM with each patient. Sometimes it's just one or

two techniques. If I see a prenatal patient, you know, I most of the time they come in, I just I

do a little bit of lumbar soft tissue on them just because I know that their their lumbar area is

stressed right now with the pregnancy. And I think they're very appreciative of that. So I think it's

just you just got to think about it all the time. And it's amazing and patients love it. And it's

again, the art of touch that a lot of patients feel that they don't get from their physicians.

With you know, you're talking about, you know, that prenatal patient, what are some other patients

that you might see that OMT is helpful with? Like fall is coming and sinuses are getting congested.

So sinus congestion is a wonderful one to do OMT on. And you know, not only do I do the OMT

for the patient right then and there, but I also teach them I teach them their pressure points,

and how they can do it at home so that they can give themselves good self relief at home.

Another one is headaches. The other day, I had somebody come in and she was constipated. And

I taught her how to viscerally massage her abdomen to help her with her, you know,

her constipation. But then I also told her to go get herself some prune juice too. So,

you know, you want everything to help you out. Right. So you mentioned headaches. And I think

you've done you've given some presentations at conferences on headaches. Is that correct?

Yes. Can you just tell because I know that like one of the first things that you learn is, you

know, the occipital release in like an OMM lab, can you just tell us some things about how

OMT can help alleviate headaches, which so many people have? Yeah. So the thought is, is that,

you know, you carry extra tension in your neck, and then that kind of goes up to your skull or

your cranium. And then you get muscle tension in in your top of your head. And it feels like this

horrible squeezing band is going to squeeze your brain out of your head. So a lot of times you need

to look at neck alignment. But besides for looking at neck alignment, I also like to look at just the

long muscles that go from your cervical spine down to your thoracic spine, because a lot of times,

those are the ones that are causing the issues. So I work on the thoracic area, as well as the

cervical area, as well as the cranium for headaches. So, you know, some headaches for medical students

are loans and how the heck they're going to pay for medical school. And I know that, you know,

you went to a state school, and then you were, as they say, in the 80s, like a nine to five working

girl. But how did you how did you finance your medical education? And then how did you work on

paying it off? Yeah, so I can tell you that back then, our tuition was 10 to $12,000 a year. Yeah,

that's really enlightening, isn't it? So that's just so that's what it was. And so what I did

for my first I actually worked my first two years of medical school while I was going to medical

school. So what I did was I took all of my favorite piano students, and I lined them up on Saturday.

And I went in to the music studio and I taught for eight hours on Saturday. And I was able to

make $200 one day doing that. And so at that time, that was $800 cash a month, it was enough for me

to pay kind of like my basic cost of living. I was living with my husband at the time. So that was

enough for us to I share we shared, you know, finances. So I was able to pay my half of the

bills. And then I just took out loans for my tuition. After you were in medical school,

you did the advice that like keeping keeping your loans as minimal as possible. How did you start

like what was kind of your plan in paying back your loans? You know, I'm very methodical. So

I did the 10 year plan, which is what the bank recommended. And I just I just paid it back every

single month. I did not pay any more. I did not pay any less. I did not miss a payment. I just and

you know, and again, my payment I still remember was $435 a month, which is not bad at all compared

to some of the nightmares that I hear that students have now. But I also hear some students that are

living with their parents, and things like that. And I think that's brilliant, you know, so you

want to minimize your costs, however you can. You also have some very expensive beings in your life,

children, what are some advice for, you know, students that are thinking about being coming

parents, you know, they're already parents, like, how do you manage everything? You know,

one of the things I thought was a great educational value for me was to have a child during medical

school. And I don't think too many doctors would say that. But I will say that. And I think the

reason why is because it really made me think about, you know, what do I want to do in my life?

And now I have to support somebody, you know, and be a role model for this person. But how do you

know, how do I want my time to be spent? Because if you have children and a family, you need to have

time with them, you need to spend time with them. And so I think it really helped me think through

and get some balance to my life before I graduated having having two children before I graduated.

You mentioned that you like sleep. Did you get any sleep then?

There were years, there were years I didn't get much sleep. My first child was she was great. She

slept through the night at three weeks, I came back, I said, Oh, this is easy, I can do this. So

I did it again. And my second child did not sleep through the night for six months. He was so

colicky. And I remember going to call thinking I think I actually got more sleep on call than

I did at home some nights. So that was a rough that was a rough six months. So yeah, there's

there's, there's good years and bad years for sleep. Yeah. So I think we're sort of touching

that third third rail of work life balance. Can you just talk to us about some of your

your hobbies so you can maximize sleep maximize, you know, patient time and then maximize self time?

Yeah, so you know, one of the things I did when I got out of residency was again, I looked for jobs

close to the radio, you know, within 10 minutes of driving distance to my home. And I would highly

recommend that for everyone because, you know, live close to where you work, it makes you a greener

human being. But it also saves you a lot of time. So I was going to school commuting 45 minutes back

and forth. I mean, I was saving myself about 10 hours a week by working close to home. So I just

thought that was that was that's a great time saver right then. And then hobbies, I, I like hobbies

that you can kind of you can do at home or away. I'm a big yoga person. So I do a lot of yoga,

I'm certified in it, I teach it at the hospital. But you know, you can do yoga anywhere. So you can

do it at any time and you can fit it into your schedule. And, you know, exactly when you feel

like you don't have time to do it is exactly when you should do it. So yeah, so so I do that. I'll

still take a dance class now and then. I love to do long walks. And so again, walking you can do

anytime, anyplace and musical instruments you can play in your home. Yeah. Well, those are all all

lovely, lovely there even therapeutic hobbies as well. Can you tell a little bit about how yoga I

know that there are some stretches that osteopathic physicians can teach their patients so they can

take that home with them. Can you just talk about how you also incorporate maybe some of your yoga

practice into your medical practice? Yeah, absolutely. So if I have somebody come in with

back pain, and they come in and I assess their back pain, I do some osteopathic manipulation on

them. And then I give them exercises. Now I can give them regular exercises, but I can also give

them yoga poses. And some of the ones that I love to give are called restorative yoga poses. Because

I think everybody thinks of yoga, they think of this, you know, thin woman that gets herself into

a pretzel pose. But that's not it at all. You know, people who have back pain can't do that.

So restorative poses are really like positions of ease, where you get somebody positioned laying

down in a pose that relieves their back pain. So there's some classic yoga restorative poses,

we have, we also have poses and osteopathic manipulation, like the constant rest position.

And you give patients these positions. And, you know, if you tell them to do all these exercises,

they don't tend to want to do those at first, because they have a lot of pain, but they will

do the restorative yoga poses. And it gets their back calm down. And then the next time they come

in, you've kind of again, you've kind of jarred that door or planted that seed, and that they're

a little bit more willing to do more active exercises the next time you see them. So you're

a musician, a dancer, a yoga teacher, taken on leadership roles in osteopathic medicine.

So are there any things that you do to give back to the community?

So my yoga class at the hospital is a free yoga class. So I yeah, so I do that to give back to the

community, everybody is is welcome to come. That's probably the main thing I do now I have done

different things in the past. I have Oh, I'm currently the medical director of Oak Leiden,

which is this is one of my fun things to do. Oak Leiden is a home for group home for developmental

disabilities for adults. And so I go over there and I do physicals for them every month and take

care of them. So I enjoy doing that. Can you tell us a little bit about this community center? It's

been around for 60 years, I think. Oak Leiden? Yes. Yeah, it's been around for a long time. So

a long time. So what it does is it offers I think we have nine, nine or 10 group homes right now.

And so they give a place for people to live, they kind of group them into intellectual ability,

and then they they will try to find them jobs. And our goal is to keep them as healthy as they

can be. Again, they're a very underserved patient population. So our goal is to get them access to

care so that they can live a long and healthy life. So I think you gave some kind of talk about

treating people with special needs. How is how is it different when you're dealing with people with

atypical neuro abilities as well as developmental abilities? How do you communicate and help them

understand their care and get better? Yeah, that's that's always challenging. So most of the time,

what you need is you need for them to have an advocate with them or a relative with them

to help you with their care. The other thing to do too is realize that a lot of times, taking care

of these patients is like taking care of a small child and that they can't really articulate for

you what their concerns are. So you wind up sometimes ordering, you know, you wind up testing

them a bit more, because you just need to collect some more data, because the history a lot of times

is not there. But you have to really listen carefully to the family members because they

know them intimately and they know when something's not right. How do students and then how do you

learn to listen better to patients? That is a great question. I guess I used to always say to

people, listen more, speak less. You have to pick your words carefully and accurately on how you're

going to ask a question to somebody. And then it's also the ability to when they answer to try to

kind of lead them down a path when you think, you know, they're starting to give you the idea of

what's going on, but you kind of have to help them find the right words or find the right description.

Sometimes you have to hand them descriptions is like, does it feel this way or that way? But yeah,

you want to, you want to really listen. And I think the longer you do the profession, the better

your listening skills get. So we've got a little bit of time left, you know, we have pre-med students

as well as, you know, students right now, and then as, as some residents as well, kind of exploring

their next steps. And I noticed you didn't mention it with your community service, but you know,

there's many different ways to give back to the community with medicine. Can you talk to us about

your time with the Indian health service? Yeah, that was fun. So I went to the Indian health service

and I just told them, just place me someplace where you're needed. So they placed me in a

Indian reservation in Sesseton, South Dakota. And it was a very small clinic. I think we had a,

it might've been a four bed hospital. They had one cardiac monitor. So you would just kind of unplug

it and bring it around to whoever needed it. It was, it wasn't continuous. They, when you do Indian

health service, they put you up in a house. So I stayed in the, it was literally called a little

house on the prairie and it was on a prairie, but the learning experience there was incredible.

There was one older physician who was there and he kind of, he kind of mentored us. There was two

younger physicians, me and another guy and he, he mentored us and helped us out. It was hard to build

the trust because you're coming in as an outsider to the Indian reservation. And so there, a lot of,

a lot of the patients didn't trust you. And then you were only there for a short period of time.

So you really had to learn some of the cultural norms. Like one of the cultural norm I learned

from them, that was really difficult for me because I tend to be somebody who kind of leans

forward and looks in people's faces was for the Indian culture, that was a big mistake. They really

don't like you to look them in the eye. So I had to be taught to kind of look elsewhere while I was

asking them personal questions and then they would answer me better. So sometimes making eye contact

is not always the best thing in different cultures. So yeah, so my experience there was very good. I

went during tick season and I learned more about ticks than I ever want to know. And I remember

my husband at the time said, yeah, we've never seen ticks being from Illinois. I wonder what they

look like. And he turned around and there was a tick right on his cheek. So I learned how to take

off my first tick right then. Now that you know how to use OMT to treat Lyme disease as well.

So yes, that's right. It's a little cheesy, but it's my favorite question. Can you tell us one

thing about you that has made you successful? What is your superpower?

I think my superpower is that I like schedules, but I don't know if that's it. I think it's because

I am an eternal optimist. I really try to see the good side of people and the good side of life.

I think in the last six months, it's been challenging with the pandemic and just the

political upheaval going on. But I really, I really try to, yeah, I try to look at the good things

and I try to help people out as much as I can. I mean, in the office and outside of the office,

because everybody needs help. So thank you so much for spending your lunch hour with us. I just like

to close with, what was the best piece of advice that you got on your osteopathic journey and that

you think that it would be a value to pass on to other individuals that are going on this osteopathic

medical journey? I would say the best advice I got was to keep up your osteopathic manipulation

skills. Because a lot of people leave school and they don't use them anymore. So it's a wonderful

treatment modality. It's wonderful for pain. I've been able to get some patients off of opioid

medication by having them come in for regular treatments. So use your OMT. Very good. Well,

thank you. Thank you so much for your time. And then I happen to be blessed. So I look

forward to seeing you in class. All right. Thank you very much for having me. Thanks so much.

This concludes our episode of Do or Do Not. Send all inquiries, comments, suggestions, and even let

us know if there's someone you want us to interview to Do or Do Not podcast at gmail.com. Don't forget

to like us on Facebook at Do or Do Not podcast for updates. If you enjoyed our podcast, please share

it with your classmates and administration. We have plenty of more interviews lined up and we're

excited to share them with you. This is Tianyu Shea. Thank you guys so much for listening to Do or Do Not.